LiveBlog: The Vice-Presidential Deba(cle)te
11:10 – Closing up shop here, guys. Thanks so much for reading and contributing here. I'm always perplexed but flattered that anybody wants to follow these things with me. So, sincerely, thanks!
But, please, do keep up the conversation in comments as long as you like.
11:02 – From the comments: "Sorry guys, it looks like Palin did it. I knew Biden was a bad choice, he will get crucified by the Press once his bad memories about voting records he forgot then argued about will come back to haunt him.
"You heard it here first McCain 53% Obama 47%." – Joe S
Well, that certainly is an opinion. Remember, guys, we heard it here first.
10:57 – From the comments: "Bosniac is technically ok, as the people of bosnia call them selves many things, seriously, it is correct." – amanda
Okay, so I'm an idiac.
10:51 – "Biden didn't put the boot in; he didn't come off as sexist; he didn't make any obvious gaffes. Palin didn't collapse and pushed through the debate with enough speed not to wobble. But it felt as if she needed the speed in order not to wobble. Her inexperience showed; her tone worked best at first and then began to grate. I don't think this debate changed the direction of this election campaign, and I think Palin's performance will buck up base Republicans but actually unnerve some independents." – Andrew Sullivan
10:49 – From the comments: "I think she nailed it in terms of poise and presentation, but she came across forced, rote, and empty to me. Joe stammered, made grammatical errors, but he felt more real, honest, and open to me." – copax
10:45 – By the way, did Biden have one real Biden moment? He must have, but I can't remember one.
10:44 – From the comments: "If she cannot follow the rules of a National Debate. Do Ya Think, she'll follow thr rules if she got into the WH." – Jose6pacs
10:42 – Oh, and he parroted Palin's "filter" line, and thinks it's a great idea to keep her away from the media's "filter."
10:41 – Pat Buchanan thinks Palin did great! Also, the sky is blue.
10:37 – So, Palin did waaaaaay better than a lot of people thought she would. I, personally, assumed that she'd do about this good. But that's just because Rachel Maddow thinks that, and Rachel Maddow is dreamy.
How did she match up to your expectations?
10:35 – Joe Biden is rubbing Sarah Palin's arm in a really creepy way.
10:33 – There's some gross dude back behind them taking pictures of them! Get that guy out of there!
10:32 – Biden's final statement was Biden's final statement. That's all I have to say about that.
10:31 – McCain is the only candidate who has really fought for us.
Did you know that he was a POW?
10:29 – "I like being able to answer these tough questions without the filter of the mainstream media."
Yeah, that fucking MSM totally screwed up her fantastic Supreme Court dissertation.
10:28 – Infastructure?
10:26 – Don't say a "dangerous thing," Joe! Obama must be shitting himself right now.
10:25 – Darcy says the "maverick" count is only up to five for Palin. I find that hard to believe.
Oh, and only one "betcha." Again, I'm shocked.
10:23 – They are really burning up the word "maverick" like the clutch on my old Ford Escort. And that's not a good thing, because then you crash into a mailbox. And let's face it – you're probably drunk.
10:22 – Is anybody counting all these "maverick"s?
10:21 – She said "Maverick" again. Somebody's getting drunk.
Oh, wait. That's me.
10:20 – Please, Biden! Don't actually answer the question about your biggest fault! Please!
10:19 – Equal rice?
10:18 – Palin's not even coming close to answering the question again. She's answering some other question asked of her. Possibly by Jesus.
10:17 – So, fumblemouth Palin is admitting to agreeing with Dick Cheney?
10:15 – Well, Biden's answer to "What does a vice president do?" is a lot more complete than Palins.
But he wasn't nearly as sweet in explaining it.
10:13 – So, that "What does a vice president do" thing was a lame joke?
Well, it was lame.
10:12 – "Say it ain't so, Joe!" "There you go again!" "Doggonit!" What 1930's movie did she walk out of?
10:10 – "Palin just winked at me! What a cutie pie!" – DS
10:09 – Darcy's cousin points out that Biden's non-answer was the longest non-answer ever.
10:06 – I'll tell you, Palin isn't saying much. But she's not saying it really well.
10:05 – From the comments: "Straight Talk!!!! who is she to talk about that!!! she has not answered 1 question tonight." – Qbee37
10:03 – "Oh, man, it's so obvious that I'm a Washington outsider." Zing! That lady's got Moxie, by George!
10:02 – Bosniac?
10:00 – Did Joe Biden just sigh in annoyance like my father?
9:57 – She's not answering the "when can we nuke people" question at all. She's talking all over the place about whatever. And now she's talking about Afghanistan.
Essentially, her answer to when the U.S. can nuke people? was Iran shouldn't be allowed to get nucular weapons.
9:56 – From the comments: "Biden's smirking at Palin just makes him look bad. He needed to review Bush #1's attitude towards Ferrara during their VP debate in order to avoid appearing patronizing." – Doreen
9:54 – Wow, I haven't seen anybody go after the Jews this hard since the last time I logged onto J Date.
9:52 – "No one is a better friend to Israel than Joe Biden." Uh oh. Joe Biden is talking about himself in the third-person now. He's about to snap.
9:50 – Obama didn't say he'd sit down with Ahmadinejad? That's news to me.
9:49 – These evil dictators hate us for our freedoms! And our respect for women's rights! Kind of like Palin.
9:47 - She doesn't know who the head of al Qaeda is? Did she just call him "That al Qaeda leader guy?" Or am I hallucinating?
9:46 – From the comments: "Who is Talibani? I want to smack her with a moosehead!" – Danielle
9:44 – "Let me say that again."
9:43 – She's fumbling on an Iraq plan. For a moment there, she was caught up in Couricville.
9:42 – And smack right back! John McCain voted the same as Barack Obama on that "not funding the troops" nonsense.
9:40 – Whoa! She is a much better debater than she is an interviewee. Nice move on saying she respects Biden's calling out Obama on "not funding the troops."
9:39 – Joe Biden and Barack Obama have the same opinion as Sarah Palin about gay marriage. That sucks!
9:38 – So, she's tolerant of gay people. Just just wouldn't tolerate the definition of the word "marriage" being altered slightly.
9:37 – From the Gaffe Track: "Palin – Senator O'Biden."
9:34 – "Um, the quote is 'Drill, Baby, Drill!'" That's it, Sarah! Call that bastard out on the big issues.
9:33 – She doesn't want to care about the causes but she does want to reduce emissions? Why would she reduce emissions if she doesn't know what the causes are? – MK
9:32 – She was the first governor to form a climate change sub-cabinet? I find that highly unlikely. Anyone out there able to confirm or deny this?
9:30 – Sarah Palin said she might not give the answers the Gwen is looking for. She's going to talk to straight to the people. That seems to have been a fancy way of saying "I'm not going to answer questions, and instead just say whatever I want."
Sarah. That's called a SPEECH. This is a DEBATE. – MK
9:29 – "It's a toxic mess on Main St. that's effecting Wall St." God damn those greedy middle class people stealing caviar out of corporate CEOs' mouths!
9:26 – "Not just darn she's said Heck. That is some potty mouth." – my coworker Darcy Savit who makes me do thing I'm supposed to do but usually forget
9:24 – "How long have I been here? Like, five weeks. So, there haven't been a whole lot that I've promised."
Finally! She says something truthful.
9:23 – The comments seems to disagree with me on Joe's "Bridge to Nowhere" line.
9:21 – "I call that the ultimate Bridge to Nowhere." Booooo!
Even the orange and green lines agree with me.
9:20 – Look at the orange line. Women love Handsome Joe!
9:19 – "Unless you're pleased with the way the federal government is running anything these days…" Good line.
9:17 – From the comments: "Check out the woman the flag pin is wearing." – Cube
9:14 – Biden just called out Palin for not answering the deregulation question. Then she was given a chance to answer it and she immediately skirted it again. Then time ran out! WTF?
9:12 – She sure says darn a lot. Not very Christian. – MK
9:11 – If you're watching CNN, did you happen to notice the dip in viewer approval the second Biden started talking. Now he's winning over women more then men, but they're both kind of rising again.
9:09 – "Neither of you really answered that question." Nice work, Gwen!
9:07 – Oh my God! She's actually parroting the bullshit "fundementals of economy" being American workers line. Has that not been completely outed as the biggest joke ever?
9:05 – Palin — in her first real sentence of the debate — brought up a kid's soccer game. Apparently, she's still running for Vice Hockey Mom.
9:04 – Wow, so they've never even met one another. I don't know why that surprises me, but it does.
9:03 – Here they come.
"Hey, can I call you Joe?" She's already charming and adorable.
8:39 – Two notes before we dive into the LiveBlog tonight. First of all, if you haven't already, sign up to follow our Twitter account where tonight we will be cataloging all the foot-in-mouth moments with our running Gaffe Track throughout the debate.
Also, in case you haven't heard, thedailyshow.com launched a new Forum area this week. Indecision 2008 has its own section over there where you can discuss the debate with the community in real time. We'll be starting in just 21 minutes, so come on back and enjoy the one and only VP debate! – MK
——–
Tonight, two of the greatest political speakers/thinkers of our time will face of against one another in a historic battle of wits. Probably. Somewhere.
Oh, and, also, the two VP candidates will be embarrassing themselves and speaking in tongues on live national television.
It's this old man…
vs. this hockey mom…
And I'll tell you what. I have a feeling that — regardless of which candidate outperforms the other — the real winner of tonight's debate is gonna be Comedy.
Check back here — at this very post — tonight at 9 pm to watch the destruction of everything we hold dear with us.
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They pretty much announced that she isn't going to be doing any media-philtered interviews.
It was a very good debate. I don't know where people are getting this notion where Palin is some idiot. She is a very bright woman. People say that she outright lost this debate when that is actually not true in the least. I do believe that she won it and did it like a true politician.
In the very beginning, Palin said she was not going to answer the questions how the proctor wanted then which was a mistake in putting that out there but then again, who actually ever does answer the question the way it is put out there. I actually saw more question dodging by Biden and Sarah called him out on that. She would specifically say something like well that's not exactly the question but I'm going to focus on that too.
A little later through is where Palin started to shine as she became more comfortable. She not only started answering the questions and the gave a rebuttal that attacked the Obama campaign but she also started attacking Biden and where he stood on many of these issues and how they had changed once he had been nominated as the VP. On the other hand, Biden made it real easy for Palin because all he was doing was attacking McCain and while that's what he said he was going to do with the time he had up there, I do not believe, with how Sarah Palin was handling herself, was a good move at all. It seemed like he was expecting to go up there and just walk his way through an easy victory and when Palin put up a defense and started to get with it and all the other things, he did nothing but stick to his guns and attack McCain. He can say he did this because Palin is new and unknown and didn't have any information on her all he wants but the truth is he really had nothing new to bring to the table than what was brought up last week in the presidential debate.
Onward towards the end is where I believe Sarah pulled ahead. She had established how she was going to answer the questions and she was doing that very effectively, almost to the point where Biden had to say yeah well we all have our own opinions, which is the equivalent of a political surrender. I noticed that when Sarah was attacking Biden, he would get this little smile that almost said well yeah you got me, I was in disagreement with Obama for the longest time on this until I was nominated. Biden defiantly became a bit more uneasy about his approach and was getting nervous. This showed no more clearly than when it was near the end and he had already had his turn at speaking and Palin was making a point about something and he would interrupt her with saying you know I need to respond to this. That was a very tactful move to make when you're losing something and you really don't want the other person to speak because it might be damaging to what you had just said. It is a very disrespectful move on his part because he came in to this debate with the full knowledge that he was only going to get 3 and a half min to make his point.
The media has been all over Palin's case for one interview. They have been releasing it all in parts so it might seem as if Palin is going in for all these different interviews and messing up each one. This is very hurtful to the McCain campaign. The media seems like it's almost trying to support the Obama cause but they can't directly do that because they need to be bipartisan and give the best of both worlds or the worst of both worlds and they really are not doing that right now.
To really see this debate in the light that it was supposed to be in, you need to step back from the media, forget all notions of what has happened with Palin and Biden, meaning their blunders, and watch it with the sole interest of what the question is and what kind of answer you are getting from the candidate. Obviously if you want change meaning a quick opinion change so that you can never seem wrong, then by all means go with Biden and Obama. But if you are looking for a solid voice that doesn't back down, note that in interviews with McCain she never goes back on what she has said, go with Palin because it is always the new guy in town that is the one that questions what's going on.
"In the very beginning, Palin said she was not going to answer the questions how the proctor wanted then which was a mistake in putting that out there but then again, who actually ever does answer the question the way it is put out there"
Uhh… Joe Biden. Or were you not paying attention? Heck, he was better than both Obama *and* McCain on that front, which really just made Palin's non-answers all the more striking.
She mispronounced "nuclear" eleven times. But then again I missed the last fifteen minutes. If you can't prronounce it, you shouldn't be alllowed to possess it.
Palin's lead-up to this debate was a hoax, an elaborate plan to make her appear to shine. Now she'll be out of the limelight, except directly talking to 'ordinary people' until the election. She's an exquisite brand of fly paper for more votes.
On a more positive note, I want to say how really great Gwen did. She's was incredibly cool and professional. Biden's performance was excellent. He showed strength, intelligence, poise and focus.
Could we please stop referring to Gwen Ifill as a *proctor* at last evening's debate? The term usually suggests an academic test was in progress. If that had been the case, Ms. Ifill might well have insisted that both candidates — but especially Governor Palin — at least answer the questions put before them. Ifill was the moderator of the debate.
As to her performance, Palin did indeed exceed some low expectations. She had a few set pieces on expected topics (foreign policy, the economy, health care, etc.) which she recited "asfastaspossiblesoIdon'tforgetwhattheymademememorize." It was breathless, frenetic, but adequate. As in a "C" performance. Most folks should want the most brilliant minds we can assemble, when we're considering whom to elect to lead us through the trying months ahead. Why should we accept mediocrity in this instance. If our loved one were facing life-threatening surgery, wouldn't we be heartened by noting that the surgeon trained at Johns Hopkins? Or would we settle for one from East Noname Medical School? I am truly tired of having to make this argument.
What's with Biden rubbing Palin's arm.. That was just creepy. I don't want another President or Vice President in office that is more interested in satisfing parts of his anatomy over running the country. It would be nice to have a VP with his hands on the wheel not rubbing on the opposite sex. If he couldn't concentrate last night on the country over his own urges what's he going to be like in office
THE VP FUNdamentals of the U.S. of A
Joe Biden: It's the fundamentals of the fundamentals that are at the fundaments of our country's fundamental success.
Sarah Palin: I'm so glad that Joe and I can fundamentally agree on one thing, the importance of U.S. fundaments. In fact, Joe's wife has been working on her fundamentals for 30 years…and I applaud her for that. When you go out on the soccer field and really talk to the parents, the first word on their mind is, yeppers, fundamentals. I fundamentally support my beautifully gay husband’s life choice to marry **ME** and have children during my lovingly planned shotgun wedding in Alaska. Believe me, I know how to hunt for bucks and I have an adult record..of being pro life choice, especially when it comes adult relationships. The progress of fundamentals is what the choice for the McCain/Palin ticket is ALL about.
Joe Biden: I have to laugh, as we're not here to talk about the **PROGRESS** of fundamentals. Instead, let's look to the past, at the record of McCain in the Bushes. When you shake the Bushes, McCain falls out. McCain and the Bushes are fundamentally rooted the same. Thus, we need to learn from the fundaments of the past to determine our core U.S. fundamentals because our past is our future. That's what I'll focus on when I become the next President of the U.S. of A,..err… I mean, when Barak Obama and I go to the White House together.
@Troll. The next thing you know Biden will be rubbing up against Obama and all hell will break loose. Palin could roll in excrement as an improvement to the democratic ticket, I suppose.